General Question
I’ve seen some wild answers throughout the years, but I’m curious to see what the denizens of this sub think.
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Hampden Hampshire Franklin and Berkshire county.
Literally everything west of Worcester county. Worcester county is Central mass. Anyone that thinks it's Western Ma is wrong.
They’re different media networks, that’s the big change. Worcester still gets Boston news, where the western Mass counties get news from Springfield. That means many of those local programs are different too. No Patriots All Access, no Chronicle.
We also get CT stations in WMa.
And NY in the Berkshires. All we had growing up were the Albany ABC, CBS etc
Exactly. My parents live in Monson which is Hampden county. They get CT and Springfield stations and the Boston news is blocked by their Cable. Unfortunately their weather is more like Worcester county weather which is covered by Boston news so they have to go online to find out the storms and weather situations. I’m constantly telling them to check the weather so they aren’t driving out into a storm.
Here in the Berkshires, we get a lot of our news and weather from Albany.
I live in Worcester. The only OTA tv channels I can get come from Providence, not Boston.
I’ve been all over so I’m just asking out of curiosity. Do you see a major cultural difference between Worcester county and western MA?
I was born and raised in Worcester, went to college and lived in the Pioneer Valley, now I work inside the 495.
If you are going to divide MA into three cultures, central MA (Worcester county) and Western MA (top comment’s list of counties) are alike in that they are both generally rural cultures, but with WM having an earthy crunchy/remote hippie living/log cabin kind of rural whereas CM has a conservative/country-wannabe/pickup-truck kind of rural.
Left-leaning political districts and academia dominate a large region of WM, which makes the culture lean artsy, academic, and politically left. Its nature is gorgeous, and so its emptied, poorly-kept urban areas (mostly forgotten by Boston) like Holyoke, Springfield, and Chicopee etc. almost create a cultural emphasis (and a kind of reliance even) on the natural world— for entertainment, leisure, culture, and economy. People in WM are NICE. Similar to people from Vermont or upstate, depending on where you are. The culture is laid back, contemplative, but in the densely populated areas, the urban decay makes life rough in many parts.
In CM, there really is only one city, and that is Worcester. The twin cities are more or less big towns, or at least they are treated as such. The culture is less academically influenced than both Eastern MA and WM, and (potentially as a result?) the culture is pretty conservative for MA, and one of the reddest counties in MA and this comes from the large population of republican towns surrounding Worcester.
Despite being rather rural, it’s still pretty densely populated east of Worcester, and so there is a classically eastern MA hustle culture in the urban areas between Worcester and into MetroWest. And there’s business, I’m talking big company HQ’s between Framingham and Worcester, a city which (may I add) is emerging from a decades-long slump of crime and poverty, and attracting local business and gentrification. Worcester attracts immigration and middle class left-leaning out-of-state professionals, which clash culturally with the rest of the region, which is mostly white and conservative (but increasingly populated by immigrants with money, especially from South/Latin America). I could make a whole post about Worcester’s culture, but i’ll suffice to say that its culture is a mixture of economic and cultural upturn and tenacity with a chronic cultural acceptance and encouragement of mediocrity and status quo. Unlike any urban areas in EM or WM to my knowledge. (Also, so much Reggaetón)
If you were to divide MA into two eastern/western halves, however, then the city of Worcester, as well as the towns to its east especially along the pike have a culture much more similar to that within the 495, whereas towns west of Worcester and most towns to its north and south are more similar to WM. To people not from New England, I usually say “the city of Worcester is the westernmost part of Eastern MA”.
I could go on and on but these are the general vibes and delineations.
This is not a diss on anyone and just my experience living/working in these places. We are all Massholes guys (but rep the 508 ya heard)
EDIT: clarity, a little more info
I'd like to add to your perspective; you describe Western MA as being "rather rural" - and I can see why you might think that if you went to UMass or one of the other colleges in the Amherst area. Hampshire County is largely rural, and Franklin County is very rural.
However Hampden County (which most people from Hampshire County avoid religiously) is not rural. It is mostly a mixture of urban and suburban, with some rural.
Anyone doubting this, here are some Google Maps links:
Holyoke
Chicopee
Chicopee
Springfield
[Springfield] (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1160209,-72.5728361,3a,75y,302.85h,93.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQbbGSDPrRjyeQSuM-hyOew!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DQbbGSDPrRjyeQSuM-hyOew%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D88.015915%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Westfield
East Longmeadow
For perspective, there are 461,041 people in Hampden County, but just 162,588 in Hampshire County, and a mere 70,894 in Franklin County. There are 862,927 people in Worcester County. I agree with your assessment of it; it is thriving now mostly due to the Boston spillover taking on a life of its own.
This is probably the best explanation I’ve read. Thank you. I’m from the twin cities btw. Definitely feel like big towns and not cities.
The way you describe Central MA culture sounds a lot like Southeast MA as well. I feel like SE could be it's own category separate from Eatern Mass (aka Boston)
Did you have this written elsewhere - or did you come up with your writing/categorizations on the fly? Quite impressive summation. Just curious.
The best explanation I’ve ever read.
Also, to explain why Worcester County or parts of are historically red boils down to one newspaper. The Worcester Telegram and Gazette had and to a certain extent still does a very right leaning conservative editorial board. That had a lot of influence back in the day. Some of the smaller towns southeast of Worcester are still pretty red. Towns like Douglas, Uxbridge, Northbridge, Millville and Blackstone still have some really rabid Trump Supporters
Beautifully written, though as a 2022 transplant who had previously lived in the Cape a few years back, I think there is also a strange hillbilly corridor that goes from Palmer to East Brookfield and from Sturbridge to North Brookfield that deserves reference. Ware/Spencer is its center lol.
In terms of like an “intersectionality” I’m convinced that the way rural people get scared away from cities is by seeing small cities (if they can be called that) like Holyoke. Abandoned towns that once held industry that got lost to time. They imagine places like New York to be bigger versions of that, when in reality big cities are for the most part much nicer
Worcester county is soooo different from western ma. Worcester still has a hustle culture. Wema feels artsy and laid back.
Upper Pioneer Valley and the Berkshires feel artsy and laid back, lower Pioneer Valley, including Springfield, is a lot more like Worcester. You'll occasionally meet people in Springfield that commute to Boston.
Worcester proper might feel like it has hustle culture. But towns like Sutton, Boylston, Ashburnham, Athol , Dudley , Rutland, Princeton, Winchendon are as rural as some of Western Mass.
Worcester County goes from the Vermont, New Hampshire border down to the Connecticut, Rhode Island border. It’s a massive county.
As somebody who's lived in Springfield and worked in Deerfield, but now lives outside Gardner and works in Deerfield, there is a HUGE difference between Worcester and Franklin/Hampshire counties, but it isn't hustle culture. The divide is between a liberal, artsy, farming area and a working class, much more conservative, much less artsy area.
Hampden County enters the Chat.
Good point
Tbh, I don't know enough about life in Worcester county. I grew up in Plymouth county and now live in Franklin county... It’s easy to delineate regions with preexisting lines, ya know.
My experience is that boston area people tend to group Worcester county as western ma because it's outside of 495, but it's not part of the 413 area code. Worc county is very large and very much in the middle of the state.
I would meet people out of state and they would be telling folks they were from Boston. I would think, “no, you are from Worcester.” No one in Western MA ever says that.
We go out of our way to distinguish western ma from Boston. We fought Shay’s rebellion for a reason dammit!
Where i live, in WMa is nearly equi-disrant between albany and boston lol. No one here says "boston". I have 1 time though, in the UK where the person was unfamiliar with our states, but heard of Boston. I then clarificatied I live about 2 hours west of Boston.
Yes and no. If you're comparing Worcester and Springfield, it's a different answer than Worcester and say Palmer.
Everyone needs to memorize this answer.
Hamburgers, hot dogs, franks and beans.
Holy shit, ‘teach a man to fish’. Now everyone *can* memorize this answer!
Very good
This is the only answer that is needed.
All the counties that U Mass dining halls are named for
This is Worcester erasure
Worcester is not western Mass, it’s central.
The above is a comment about Worcester being a dining hall at UMass
Lol. The Worcester DC was my DC.
The Oak Room was where it was at
Shorter, past Worcester County.
… Hurricanes hardly ever happen.
Hurricane Irene says hello
Eliza Doolittle and Henry Higgins say hi back.
Berkshire County is "berkshires". I know I know it's splitting hairs, but they're weird out there.
I’m them and I’m out there, are you saying I’m weird?
I was born there and I'm weird. I blame the PCB's not my crippling anxiety.
The Berkshires are almost a whole different place than Western MA in my opinion.
Like yea, its western ma, buts its like... WESTERN MA. the dragons really do live up in the berkshires. Once you get bast westfield, and anywhere off the Lee pike exit its a whole other world.
Edit: -I live in Chicopee for area context
But the Berkshire Mountains extend into Franklin County.
I like to split the Berkshires into “the Berks” and “the Shire”. The former being generally north and some of mid county and the shire being most everything south. With some exceptions of course and it’s less about geography than mindset. The Shire people are the upper upper westsiders who came for summer camp and still basically treat the area like grown up summer camp. The Berks are locals or local adjacent, working class and working artists and most of the people worth knowing.
Hey now.
Berkshires represent!
Roughly speaking, the 413, definitely west of the Quabbin. The Berkshires are western Mass, but also their own thing.
413 is correct.
Franklin, Hampshire, Hampden and Berkshire Counties for Western Mass.
Worcester County is Central Mass.
I’d consider it anything west of Worcester.
Really anything west of Alewife. /s
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Steinberg_New_Yorker_Cover.png
413
Simplicity. Well done.
West of Worcester county
Westah woostah
Good ansah, good ansah. Wicked Hahvard brains heeah in thah cahments.
eyyy tollbooth willie! how ya doin?
Dollah twenniefive paul
If the restaurant menu has grinders
Western edge of Quabbin is the beginning of western mass.
Yes, and to this same degree it’s also where the Pioneer Valley begins. So Orange is in Western Mass, but Athol is not
Agreed. Orange is in Franklin County. Athol is in Worcester County.
Ok, but they have to keep Ware.
Yeah but you have Spencer lol
Ugh okay fine
Athol is one of the weirdest ones. You go to jury duty in Greenfield and if you go to jail you also go to Greenfield.
It really is weird. Athol is the only town in Worcester County that isn't covered by the Worcester County DA's office. Instead, it's a part of the Northwestern District (Hampshire & Franklin Counties).
There used to an Athol District Court and an Orange District Court up until the early 80s and there was an influential judge and some, ah, interested parties that got a commercial building redone in Orange.
I’d say I-84. Def I-91.
I-84 exit on the pike is where you can start to hear LAZR 99.3
You know you’re in western MA then
Where i live in Chicopee i can get LAZR 99.3 from Springfield. and Radio 104.1 from CT. Its the perfect intersection of FM radio that i never listen to anymore, but when i need to, they are there for me.
413 Area Code
413 area code
It’s funny how this changed in my mind as I’ve moved around the state but I’d say:
West of 91 - Definitely // West of 202 - Most likely // West of 190 - Now you’re stretching it // West of 495 - Only if you’ve never left the Boston area // West of 95 - Only if you’re my parents
Was thinking the same thing. When i was a kid it was past Framingham, in my 20s it was Worcester, and now I'd say anything past the quabbin